1920 Federal Census, Comanche County, Oklahoma, 19 January, Chandler Township, District 113, parker RR Section, page 4B, Hse #76, Fam #77 Fisher, Henry C Head Owns M In 23 OK TX OK Farmer Fisher, Agnes E Wife F In 23 OK OK OK Fisher, Anita B Dau F In 2yrs5mos OK OK OK Henry and the girls were also enumerted on the Comanche rolls for 1920. The girls are listed under the English name of their grandfather, orignally the German form Fischer. 1920 Indian Census Rolls, Kiowa, Comanche and Apache Tribes, Oklahoma, 30 June, Kiowa Agency, Comanche Tribe, No Page # #1201 Henry Asewaynah (Willie Fisher) Head b 1896 M Fam # 529 1/2 blood #1202 Verbera [mistranscriptoin: Verbena] Fisher Dau b 1917 F #1203 Bernice Fisher Dau b 1919 F 1930 Indian Census Rolls, Kiowa, Comanche and Apache Tribes, Oklahoma, 1 April, Kiowa Agency, Comanche Tribe, No Page # #287 Asewaynah (Fisher), Henry M age 34 Comanche 1/4 Married Head #288 Sturm, Agnes F 36 Wichita 1/4 Married Wife #289 Fisher, Verbena F age 13 Comanche Single Dau 1930 Federal Census, Comanche County, Oklahoma, 10 April, Chandler Township, District 5, page 5A, Hse/Fam #82 Fisher, Henry Head Owns M In 34 Married at age 18 OK Mixed Blood Comanche Farmer, Indian Home Fisher, Agnes Wife F In 37 Married at age -- OK Mixed Blood Caddo - page 5B - Fisher, Verbena Dau F In 11 OK Mixed Blood Comanche Fisher, Bernice Son M In 10 OK Mixed Blood Comanche Fisher, Jeanie Dau M In 5 OK Mixed Blood Comanche Ketch, George Boarder M In 45 OK Mixed Blood Comanche Farmer 1937 Indian Census Rolls, Kiowa Comanche and Apache Tribes, Oklahoma, 1 January, Kiowa Agency, Comanche Tribe, Page 22 #284 Asewaynah (Fisher), Henry M Born 1894 age 40 Comanche 1/2 Married Head Last census #271 #285 Fisher, Verbena F b 1917 age 19 Comanche Single Dau #272 In the 1940 census, Verbena is reported as Berbena. 1940 Federal Census, Caddo County, Oklahoma, 10 April, District 8-54, Page 4A, Hse #59, Owns Fisher, Henry A Head F In 44 Married Grade 7 b Oklahoma same county in 1935 Farmer Fisher, Agnes E Wife F In 43 Married Grade 8 b Oklahoma same county in 1935 Fisher, Berbena A Dau F In 22 Grade H4 b Oklahoma same county in 1935 U.S., Social Security Applications and Claims Index, 1936-2007 Verbena Anita Fisher [Verbena Anita Liege] [Verbena Mack] Birth 14 August 1917 Anadarko, Caddo County, Oklahoma Death Date 10 September 1990 Father Henry A Fisher Mother Agnes Sturm SSN 440246042 Jun 1943 Name listed as VERBENA ANITA FISHER; Jun 1946 Name listed as VERBENA ANITA LIEGE; Mar 1964 Name listed as VERBENA A MACK California, Death Index, 1940-1997 Verbena Anita Mack [Verbena Anita Fisher] SSN 440246042 Birth 14 Aug 1917 Oklahoma Death 0 Sep 1990 Los Angeles Mother's Maiden Name Sturm Father's Surname Fisher Verbena Fisher Mack name on stone: Verbena Anita (Fisher) Mack Birth Aug 14, 1917 Anadarko, Caddo County, Oklahoma Death Sep 11, 1990 Anadarko, Caddo County, Oklahoma Burial Fort Cobb Cemetery, Fort Cobb, Caddo County, Oklahoma Parents: Henry A Fisher 1896-1982 Agnes Esther Sturm Fisher 1894-1956 Created by Nancy Charlton Apr 22, 2011 -- Find A Grave Memorial #68771679, https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/68771679/verbena-mack
Some sources have alternative forms for Aleyne's name: Alaive; Olive, Aline. There is a discrepancy of 12 years on the estimated date of marriage of Roger 5th Lord to Aleyne fitz Alan. I am following the Worldroots source "Descendants of Charlemagne," as it appears more careful and has more detail than the Le Strange Website, which is a family hobby site and has only scattered and incidental bits of information.
Lady Alice Fitz Alan Countess Kent Birth 1350 in Arundel Castle, Sussex, England Death 17 Mar 1415 in Brockenhurst, Hampshire, England Marriage to Sir Thomas De Holand Earl of Kent 10 Apr 1364 Arundel, Sussex, England -- CoonTice Rice, http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/3060675/person/783157828
There are some uncertainties about the father of Edmund. Some genealogies report that he is the son of John b 1246 and Isabella Mortimer. Others report his parents to be Richard b 1266/67 and Alisona/Alasia De Saluzza. Richard's birth date of 1266/67 is only 7 years before Edmund's reported birth date of 1273. While dates vary, sources I have seen agree on the birth date for Richard. But there is a difference of 12 years on the birth of Edmund. Years of birth and death vary between the sources in the families of this era, even those quite well-known. Oddly, the source that shows him born 1273, this is the source that shows Richard as the father of Edmund. One source showing Edmund as the son of John, on the other hand, has Edmund's birth in 1285. This would put his born 37 years after the birth of John, which is possible, and 18 years after Richard, which is also possible. If Edmund was born in 1285, Alisona/Alasia would be about 13 at marriage and 14 at his birth. This is young, but possible. One genealogy shows Eleanor as a daughter of this Richard, while others show her as a brother of Richard, a daughter of John. It seems that more of the dates and relationships are accounted for if we consider the birth date for Edmund as 1285, and the son of Richard and Alasia/Alisona. Worcestershire Country became Hereford and Worcester County in 1974. Hereford and Worcester are the two main cities, and are considered districts of the modern county.
There are problems about the parentage and dates of Eleanor. Some sources report her as the daughter of John FitzAlan and Isabella De Mortimer. But others report her as their granddaughter, and the son of their son Richard. Most sources have no birth date for her. One which does reports her as the daughter of John and Isabella. However, the birth date given there (World Family Tree Vol 4 # 3168) reports her birth (Abt 1275) after their death (John d "18 Mar 1271/72", Isabella d "Bef Aug 1274") reported in this same source! This source does not explain what is significant about the date of Isabella's death. "Before Aug 1274" seems to indicate another event as a reference point. But this date 1275 is only 8-9 years after the birth of Richard, so he could not be her father in that case. The source does not tell how it arrived at this date. I am reporting Eleanor as daughter of Richard with no birth date, as World Family Tree Vol 4 #123 has. Wikipedia also reports Eleanor FitzAlan to be the daughter of Richard FitzAlan, with the same birth date for Richard, 1266/7. The Wikipedia article also presents problems, since it says that Richard attained his majority only in 1289, but he would have been 23 years old at that. time. Surely he would have reached his majority in his teens. Twenty-three years old is very late for a medieval lifespan to become an adult. But if we assume that Eleanor FitzAlan was the daughter of Richard, who was born in 1266/7, she would have been much younger than her husband, Henry Lord DePercy, who was born in 1273. --------------------------- Richard FitzAlan, 8th Earl of Arundel Richard FitzAlan, 8th Earl of Arundel (7th Earl of Arundel per Ancestral Roots) (3 February 1266/7 - 9 March 1301/2) was an English Norman medieval nobleman. Lineage He was the son of John FitzAlan, 7th Earl of Arundel (6th Earl of Arundel per Ancestral Roots) and Isabella Mortimer, daughter of Roger Mortimer, 1st Baron Wigmore and Maud de Braose. His paternal grandparents were John Fitzalan, 6th Earl of Arundel and Maud le Botiller [Butler]. Titles Richard was feudal Lord of Clun and Oswestry in the Welsh Marches. After attaining his majority in 1289 he became the 8th Earl of Arundel, by being summoned to Parliament by a writ directed to the Earl of Arundel. -- "Richard FitzAlan, 8th Earl of Arundel," Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_FitzAlan,_8th_Earl_of_Arundel --------------------------- The Wikipedia article on Eleanor FitzAlan gives a suitable latere date for her birth, which coudl match the reports that Richard FitzAlan was her father. --------------------------- Eleanor Fitzalan (c. 1284 - July/August 1328) was an alleged daughter of Richard FitzAlan, 8th Earl of Arundel and his wife Alice of Saluzzo. She became the wife of Henry de Percy, 1st Baron Percy. Their son was Henry de Percy, 2nd Baron Percy. Standard accounts of the Percy family identify Eleanor as the daughter of the "Earl of Arundel." Arrangements for Eleanor's marriage to Lord Percy are found in the recognizance made in 1300 by Eleanor's father, Richard, Earl of Arundel, for a debt of 2,000 marks which he owed Sir Henry Percy. Eleanor was styled as a "kinswoman" of Edward II on two separate occasions; once in 1318 and again in 1322 presumably by her descent from Amadeus IV, Count of Savoy who was the brother of Edward II's great-grandmother, Beatrice of Savoy. Eleanor's brothers, Edmund and John were also styled as "kinsmen" of the king. Eleanor's identity is further indicated by the presence of the old and new arms of FitzAlan (or Arundel) at her tomb. -- "Elanor FitzAlan," Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_FitzAlan ---------------------------
Some genealogies list the FitzAlans as Earls of Arundel with no sequence number. Others list them as Earls in number sequence. By the latter, John FitzAlan, born 1248, would be the 7th Earl of Arundel, and his son Edmund the 8th Earl. However, the Encyclopaedia Britannica has the 3rd Earl of Arundel as the later Richard FitzAlan, born about 1330. They number out from there. There is no information on the 1st and 2nd Earl. Perhaps the earlier Arundels (FitzAlans) were called Barons and some genealogies have referred to them as Earls.
Margaret Fitzalan Birth 1302 in Arundel, Sussex, England, Death 1354 in Wem Oversley, Shropshire, England Parents Richard Fitzalan 1267-1302, Alisona de Saluzza 1271-1292 Marriage 1329 to William Botiler Shropshire, England Son William Botiler 1330-1369 -- Bundy, http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/1471533/person/-1936590107 The place of death should be only Wem. Oversley is a locaoit in Warwickshire where the Biltilers also had lands.
Some sources report another name of Mary FitzAlan as Isabel. The Norman names with Fitz are written in various ways, in contemporary and modern sources. This prefix Fitz is a Germanic word associated with the Norman Vikings. The word/prefix was common in the Norman lineage long after they spoke a form of French as a native language and even into the more modern period when they had given up French for English. We find the Norman prefix as part of primary name in most modern forms: Fitzgerald, Frtzpatrick, Fitzhugh, and in UK other names persist that are less common in the New World, such as this name Fitzalan. This was a prefix meaning "son of," like the Irish (and thus Scottish) Mac (Mc) or Welsh Ap, the French De (De Burgh, De Warenne, DeLaine) and Von/Van (Von Braun, Van Riebeeck) in other Germanic languages. A similar pattern in the Saxon and Scandinavian dialects occurs as the word/suffix "son/sen" on the end of names: Erickson, Larssen, Jenkinson, Thomson/Thompson (Thomas' son). The same thing occurs in many cultures, as in the Semitic equivalent found in Arabic Bin and Hebrew Ben. The latter is found in the name Benjamin (Ben-Yamin), "son of the right hand." We find the use of "Fitz" commonly in the period before surnames were common: Fitz Robert, Fitz Hugh, Fitz Walter, Fitz Bernard. As members of the family became titled or otherwise notable, descendants began to use the name Fitz from the father, and it came to be a name own its own right, handed down for family lineage identification. The name of the Fitzalans is found written as FitzAlan, Fitz Alan, fitzAlan, Fitzalan, and sometimes the l is doubled (FitzAllan) in all the variations. I have it capitalized for Mary, the way it was in the source where I found it, while I have likewise kept the form in which I found the uncapitalized prefix for her sister Aleyne.
Dates for Richard "Copped Hat" FitzAlan vary from 1300 to 1313. The Complete Peerage suggests the date 1313. Some genealogies list this Richard Fitzalan as Earl of Arundel, which he was. But he had two titles: Richard FitzAlan, 9th Earl Of Arundel & Warenne. The estate of Arundel was added to the FitzAlan family as the inheritance of Lady Alice de Warren (De Warren, deWarenne, de Warine). Eleanor's father Henry Plantagenet, Earl of Lancaster, was a grandson of King Henry III of England. Some sources report him as the 10th Earl, as The Peerage cited below, referencing The Compleat (Complete) Peerage. Some of these report his father as 9th earl and some as 8th earl. (For instance, Charlemagne's Descendants http://worldroots.com/~brigitte/famous/c/charlemagnedesc-105.htm.) At least one sources reporting his father as 8th earl also reports Richard as 10th earl. I am unclear why these differences occur, and if his father was the 8th Lord, rather than the 9th, who was the 9th? Some sources report that Richard had two wives, first Isabel Le Despencer then Eleanor Plantagenet. Some report only one or the other, and most do not report all children of Richard, only certain family lines they are following. Some report the marriage to Eleanor only but no children. Dates are uncertain. Different sources report different wives as the mother of Joan FitzAlan. Dates also vary so as to confuse this. Birth dates of Joan vary from 1332 to 1348. Here is a summary of the Earl's life from The Peerage online source. =================================== Richard FitzAlan, 10th Earl of Arundel1 b. circa 1313, d. 24 January 1376 Richard FitzAlan, 10th Earl of Arundel b. c 1313\nd. 24 Jan 1376 Edmund Fitzalan, 9th Earl of Arundel b. 1 May 1285\nd. 17 Nov 1326 Alice de Warenne|d. b 23 May 1338 Richard Fitzalan, 8th Earl of Arundel b. 3 Feb 1267\nd. 9 Mar 1301/2 Alasia di Saluzzo d. 25 Sep 1292 William de Warenne d. 1286 Joan de Vere|d. c 23 Nov 1293 Richard FitzAlan, 10th Earl of Arundel was born circa 1313.3 He was the son of Edmund Fitzalan, 9th Earl of Arundel and Alice de Warenne.2 He married, firstly, Isabel le Despenser, daughter of Hugh le Despenser, 3rd Lord le Despenser and Eleanor de Clare, on 9 February 1320/21.3 He married, secondly, Lady Eleanor Plantagenet, daughter of Henry Plantagenet, 3rd Earl of Lancaster and Matilda de Chaworth, on 5 February 1345 at Ditton Church, Stoke Puges, Buckinghamshire, England.4,5 He died on 24 January 1376 at Arundel Castle, Arundel, Sussex, England.6 He was buried at Lewes Priory, Lewes, Sussex, England.3 Richard FitzAlan, 10th Earl of Arundel also went by the nick-name of 'Copped Hat'.3 He held the office of Justiciar of North Wales in 1334.3 He held the office of Governor of Carnarvon Castle in 1339.3 He held the office of Admiral of the West from 1340 to 1341.3 His marriage to Isabel le Despenser was annulled on 4 December 1344 by Papal mandate, supposedly on the grounds that they were married during their minority, and without their consent. The reality is that the Earl probably wished to be rid of his wife, who had no value to him after her father's attainder and exectution.3 He held the office of Sheriff of Shropshire in 1345.3 He held the office of Admiral of the West between 1345 and 1347.3 He fought in the Battle of Crécy on 26 August 1346, where he commanded the 2nd division.3 He fought in the fall of Calais in 1347.3 He succeeded to the title of 10th Earl of Arundel [E., c. 1138] in 1347.1,7 On 30 June 1347 he succeeded to the vast estates of the family of Warenne.3 He succeeded to the title of Earl of Surrey on 12 April 1361.8 Citations 1. [S6] G.E. Cokayne; with Vicary Gibbs, H.A. Doubleday, Geoffrey H. White, Duncan Warrand and Lord Howard de Walden, editors, The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Extant, Extinct or Dormant, new ed., 13 volumes in 14 (1910-1959; reprint in 6 volumes, Gloucester, U.K.: Alan Sutton Publishing, 2000), Volume 12, page 899. Hereinafter cited as The Complete Peerage. 2. [S6] Cokayne, and others, The Complete Peerage, volume I, page 242. 3. [S6] Cokayne, and others, The Complete Peerage, volume I, page 243. 4. [S11] Alison Weir, Britain's Royal Family: A Complete Genealogy (London, U.K.: The Bodley Head, 1999), page 78. Hereinafter cited as Britain's Royal Family. 5. [S6] Cokayne, and others, The Complete Peerage, volume II, page 60. 6. [S6] Cokayne, and others, The Complete Peerage, volume I, page 244. 7. [S6] Cokayne, and others, The Complete Peerage, volume I, page 243, says 1330-1331. 8. [S2] Peter W. Hammond, editor, The Complete Peerage or a History of the House of Lords and All its Members From the Earliest Times, Volume XIV: Addenda & Corrigenda (Stroud, Gloucestershire, U.K.: Sutton Publishing, 1998), page 38. Hereinafter cited as The Complete Peerage, Volume XIV. 9. [S11] Alison Weir, Britain's Royal Family, page 79. 10. [S6] Cokayne, and others, The Complete Peerage, volume XII/2, page 899. -- The Complete Peerage, http://www.thepeerage.com/p10490.htm ===================================
I find a difference among the various sources, at every level of credibility, in the numbering of the Lords of Arundel. Some sources, like Wikipedia, style this John as the 8th Lord, while other credible sources style him the 7th, and on down the line with the different numbering. I have not found how to resolve the conflict. I have not found any sources that acknowledges the difference. From the historical information I can glean about the establishment of the Barony, I think some have confused the Barony and the Earldom. It seems there was a popular reference to the early Lord barons of Arundel as Earls, when in fact the earldom had not yet been created. In other sources the Earldom begins earlier than the Barony. Some mention the Barony and others number only by the Earldom. See "Richard FitzAlan, 8th Earl of Arundel," Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_FitzAlan,_8th_Earl_of_Arundel One source presents a good sumamry, using styling Richard, son of John (and father of Edmund) of 8th Earl of Arundel ------------------------------------------------- Richard Fitzalan, 8th Earl of Arundel Son of John Fitzalan, 7th Earl of Arundel and Isabel de Mortimer, father of Edmund Fitzalan and husband of Alisia de Saluzzo Richard was born in 1267, probably on 3 February. His father died when he was five years old, and his estates were wasted by his grandmother Maud, and her second husband, Richard d'Amundeville. He was himself, however, under the wardship of his grandfather Mortimer, although several custodians, among whom was his mother, successively held his castle at Arundel. Before 1285 Fitzalan married Alasia or Alice de Saluza the daughter of Thomas, Marquess of Saluzzo in Piedmont, an alliance which is thought to point to a lengthened sojourn in Italy. One chronicler to remarked that the Marquess of Saluzzo was descended from ‘the impious Lombards’. Their children were: Edmund Fitzalan, 9th Earl of Arundel Eleanor Fitzalan, married Henry de Percy, 1st Baron Percy Alice Fitzalan, married Stephen de Segrave, 3rd Lord Segrave Margaret Fitzalan, married William le Botiller (or Butler) of Wem Richard died on 9th March 1301/02 In 1287 Fitzalan received his first writ of summons against the rebel Rhys ap Maredudd, and was enjoined to reside on his Shropshire estates until the revolt was put down. He is there described as Richard Fitzalan, but in January 1292 he is styled Earl of Arundel for the first time, and it was as Earl of Arundel that he was regularly styled thereafter. In 1292 his zeal to join the king's forces was the excuse for a humiliating submission to Gilbert de St Leofard, Bishop of Chichester, after a quarrel about his right of hunting in Houghton Forest. In 1294 he was appointed to command the forces sent to relieve Bere Castle, in Meirionydd, which was threatened by the Welsh insurgent Madog. In 1295 he was active in leading the baronial opposition to Edward I's demands for paid military service in Gascony. However, in 1297 having laid aside his opposition, he agreed to serve in the duchy. In 1298, 1299, and 1300 he held command in Scotland, and in the latter year appeared, a ‘beau chevalier et bien amé’ and ‘richement armé’, at the siege of Caerlaverock. His last attendance in parliament was in 1301 at Lincoln, where he was one of the signatories of the famous letter to the Pope backing Edward I's claim to Scotland. His last military summons was to Carlisle for 24th June 1301. He died on 9th March 1302 and was buried in Haughmond Abbey, Shropshire. -- Gaskell Family, http://www.gaskellfamily.com/RichardFitzalan1266.htm -------------------------------------------------
The date of birth for Thomas Fitzbernard varies in sources from 1145 to 1150. The following family summary is from the Bradley Genealogy. Thomas FITZ BERNARD was born 1145 in Kingsdown, Kent, England. He died 5 1185 in Kingsdown, Kent, England. Thomas married Eugenia PICOT on 1171 in Kingsdown, Kent, England. Eugenia PICOT was born 1150 in Milton, Kent, England. She died 5 1201 in Kingsdown, Kent, England. Eugenia married Thomas FITZ BERNARD on 1171 in Kingsdown, Kent, England. Other marriages for Eugenia: MALET, William I They had the following children: Maud FITZ BERNARD was born 1172. Thomas FITZ BERNARD was born 1174 and died Dec 1214. -- Bradley Family, http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hwbradley/aqwg2455.htm#52432
Thomas FITZBERNARD of Kingsdown & Tong (born abt 1175 and died before 1214) was the child of Thomas FITZBERNARD of Kingsdown Abt 1150-1184 and Eugene (Eugenia) DE PICOT Heiress of Tonge Abt 1156-1184. He married Alice DE JARPENVILLE (born abt 1179 and died in 1254. She was the child of Sir William DE JARPENVILLE (b abt 1155) and Aubrey DE RUMENEL, Lady of Ilmer & Aston (born abt 1159) -- Celtic-Casimir, http://www.celtic-casimir.com/webtree/17/34353.htm Tonge was his mother's estate. "The office of marshal and keeper of the king's hawks and other birds was held in the 12th century by the Rumenel family, lords of Ilmer, who seem at first to have held the marshalship as their personal right and not as appurtenant to their manor, for in 1204 the king, at the petition of Aubrey de Rumenel, widow of William de Jarpenville, who had with Aubrey 'all her inheritance and the marshalship of our birds,' granted the office to Thomas Fitz Bernard and his wife, the heir of the Jarpenvilles, and to their heirs for ever. " -- British History, http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=62534